Curse

Chthon · Nov 14, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Remove the Timer from Soul Reaping

(This thread is provided as a convenience to the devs so that this issue can come to their attention without having to wade through pages and pages of off-topic in the update feedback thread.)

It's time to remove the timer from Soul Reaping.

We grudgingly tolerated it when it (arguably) served some purpose. Now that spirits no longer trigger Soul Reaping, that purpose is gone. So, the timer no longer serves any purpose. And we HATE it. So it's time to remove the timer, please.

To elaborate for those who haven't been paying attention to Soul Reaping:
PvP teams used to be able to create infinite energy engines using either: (1) Jagged Bones to create infinite minions in rapid succession, or (2) an infinite supply of spirits cast in rapid succession. First, Jagged Bones was nerfed with a long recharge that made the minion turnover too slow to be worthwhile as an energy engine. That nerf worked, and "minion spam" died. Later, the timer effect was added to deal with "spirit spam," over very strong community complaints that we'd rather see spirits just not trigger Soul Reaping. This nerf failed to destroy "spirit spam" teams (they just worked around the timer), and remains widely HATED among the necromancer player base. Now that a-net has finally implemented no-Soul-Reaping-from-spirits, like the players asked for months ago, both types of infinite energy engines are impossible, and there is no need for the timer to remain. (Moreover, with EotN as the final installment, there's no danger of accidentally creating a new one in a future expansion.)

At the time the timer was added, some people argued that it was also necessary for "PvE balance." Most responded that "PvE balance" does not exist, or, if it does, the devs do not care about it. I think that, with the inclusion of super-powered PvE-only skills like Ursan Blessing, Save Yourselves, and There's Nothing to Fear, there can be no doubt that, if "PvE balance" was ever a real concern, it is not anymore. Simply put, "PvE balance" is no longer a credible reason for nerfing anything.

Finally, I've gone to the trouble of sifting through the mountain of off-topic in the update feedback thread to pull out people's comments in support of removing the timer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Now that you've gone and done what players said to do... oh, a few MONTHS ago... how about you remove the bloody timer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrotic

The new SR nerf needs to include the removal of the timer, because that would make SR function exactly the way we suggested it the first time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Revert the timer back to the original Soul Reaping. No need for this nerf anymore if the controllable deaths have now been removed from the energy gain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

i agree the timer should be removed from soul reaping now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1975

Would be nice to knwo if they will remove the timer limit on soul reaping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

The timer was added to stop the spiritway "exploit". The spiritway "exploit". is. removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kooomar

the SR timer should be removed imo, as its not really necessary anymore

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

Now no energy from spirits, they should revert some nerf because of soul reaping build as well.

timer nerf
blood spike (especially OG)
icy veins
jagged bones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

Get rid of the timer on Soul Reaping

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqube

Soul Reaping: Everybody knew this was only a matter of time. But yeah, it doesn't make much in the way of "sense" or "logic" to have the timer anymore. You're not worried about the issue in PvE and there aren't enough people dying in PvP for necros to turn into perma-batteries. $0.02.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Necros not gaining energy from spirits makes sense. It always did. The timer, however, makes none. Hope it is considered to simply returning SR to what it used to be, sans being affected by spirits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Presler

No more soul reaping from spirits, i couldnt give a damn, now just take that timer off and rock on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Oh good. You finally listened and took spirits off the SR. Now just take off that timer and all will be well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

My first thought: - Good, now they can get rid of the SR timer

It's time for the timer to go.

[edit: In what may be a vain attempt to maintain the focus in this thread, I've created another thread just for the pet nerf.

Please put the pet comments there and the SR comments here.]

gone · Nov 14, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Gj and Ty for the rehash..I hope we see some usefulness come out of this.

-crosses fingers and waits-

lyra_song · Nov 14, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I think SR and Pets both need to be rethought altogether.

Chthon · Nov 14, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I think SR and Pets both need to be rethought altogether.

I totally 100% agree that the no-corpses-from-pets nerf is the dumbest thing since... well, since the timer was added to SR. It's just not on-topic in this thread. Perhaps it deserves a thread of its own.

milan · Nov 14, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Not altogether sure why pets don't leave exploitable corpses now. Anyone willing to explain it to me, please do so.

As for the timer. It served it's purpose until the step was taken to remove spirits from SR trigger. It's now time to remove it.

Vinraith · Nov 14, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Given a sufficient supply of things dying I've never really noticed an energy shortage (in PvE, I can't and don't comment on PvP balance). My first thought with the spirit change was we might lose the timer, but I don't know that I care that much one way or the other.

Oh, and I really, really don't understand the whining about pet corpses. I can't think of a change that could affect my primary necro less. If you need a corpse that badly in PvE, you're running a build you shouldn't be running wherever you are.

flyinhigh · Nov 14, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

yeah the whole timer thing needs to go, really i mean like pronto.

that and the no minions or wells from pets? wtf is that about, is it alive? when it dies it makes a corpse, thats how the game mechanics work. riiight? or are they tossing crap nerfs out now just to !@#% with the player base.

Keithark · Nov 14, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

/signed for remove SR timer
/signed for reverting back pets to leave corpse...what next? ally doesn't leave corpse?

Blackhawk · Nov 14, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyinhigh

yeah the whole timer thing needs to go, really i mean like pronto.

that and the no minions or wells from pets? wtf is that about, is it alive? when it dies it makes a corpse, thats how the game mechanics work. riiight? or are they tossing crap nerfs out now just to !@#% with the player base.

Nah I think they're worried that some "cool" N/R "Bone Minion Petway" will become the new FoTM build or something now that spirits dont give energy.

BenjZee · Nov 14, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

no, the pet was an understandiable change. leave it theres plenty of other corpses in pve anyway. The soul reaping being reverted back to how it was ages ago with out the spirits sounds approprriate.

gone · Nov 14, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

remove SR timer <-------> RESOUNDING YES it's Long Over due

Blackhawk · Nov 14, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmithyBen

no, the pet was an understandiable change. leave it theres plenty of other corpses in pve anyway. The soul reaping being reverted back to how it was ages ago with out the spirits sounds approprriate.

Care to enlighten us on why it's understandable then as I'm sure there's several people on this forum who would like to hear it, and going by the fact you menioned pve, I can only guess it's some messed up pvp exploit someones figured out and made someone cry.

Chthon · Nov 14, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

In what may be a vain attempt to maintain the focus in this thread, I've created another thread just for the pet nerf.

Please put the pet comments there and the SR comments here.

-------------------------

Thank you to whoever returned the thread to Riverside.

Phaern Majes · Nov 14, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

On topic, I'd say they should just scrap their current idea altogether and rethink it. Maybe make it so you gain one pip energy regen based on the number of enemies around:

Soul Reaping.........# of enemies affected.......Area of effect
.....0-6...........................1..................... .......nearby
.....7-12.........................2...................... ....in the area
....13-18.........................3.................heari ng distance (like shouts/chants)

Just my thought and I'm sure there are multiple problems with that ^^ but I think the current SR is just as issue prone if not more so.

Nekretaal · Nov 14, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I quit months ago after the introduction of the timer.

This nerf was unnessary and I lost faith in anet so I left. I've only logged in twice sense then... to collect hats in July and October. I loved this game but hated the way it was being run.

Please Anet show some common sense.

Firebaall · Nov 14, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

No reason for the timer. Remove it, or restore the SR off spirits. No need for both.

Koning · Nov 14, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

/signed for remove SR timer

1234567891011

darkdreamr · Nov 14, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Soul Reaping is arguably the best primary attribute in the game already. I have to say I disagree that Anet should remove the timer. Besides, it doesn't matter now. It won't be used in PvP because things don't die reliably enough. In PvE, Necros are already good. No need to give them infinite energy so they can spam 15 energy spells like they're free.

upier · Nov 14, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

The timer is silly. Always was and always will be.
On the other hand - the energy gain from SR is (still!) insane.

Drop the timer and reduce how much energy can be gained from each death. I'd suggest something like 1 point of energy per 3 or 4 levels in SR.
IF SR shouldn't be rebalanced - keep the timer.
It's the only thing that is currently keeping it in check.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

Soul Reaping is arguably the best primary attribute in the game already. In PvE, Necros are already good. No need to give them infinite energy so they can spam 15 energy spells like they're free.

Aye.
Exactly.

The Meth · Nov 14, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Why are people complaining about the SR timer anyway?

In PvE depending on your SR attribute you should be getting at least 30 energy every 15 seconds, which equates to an effective energy regeneration boost of +6.

In PvP outside of builds meant to exploit SR, if you are able to trigger it 4 times in 15 seconds (by killing 4 people in 15 seconds) aren't you winning enough that you don't need that extra energy?

I'll be the first one to argue about the fact that the current method is pretty inelegant but we don't need it back to what it is before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

So while Soul Reaping will not be adjusted back to the way it was, the designers will continue to look at ways to achieve the desired outcomes in the best way possible.